aionlogs | [Closed] June Catch-All

"Really?" Ryunosuke hums. He circles around to take a proper look at Estinien's handiwork, cocking his head and stroking his chin as he peers at it with interest. It certainly looks thorough...

He... Probably shouldn't be judging Estinien's drawing skills, should he? No, he shouldn't. Now... is he going to judge them anyway? Yes. Yes he is.

(He keeps that entirely to himself, at least.)

"You've certainly covered a lot of ground. Is there a particular goal you have in mind with all this? Or do you simply have a fondness for exploration...?"

It can't be that he's into cartography. That's for damn sure.

Edited 2022-06-16 01:09 (UTC)

He shakes his head. Well, he doesn't mind exploration really, but he isn't doing this for recreation. There's no time for that, at the moment.

"The Pleroma need a place to store their captives when it comes to it, and I would see that we are prepared in advance. Natural cave systems seemed the most promising, but they must be far enough from the core settlements to maintain their secrecy in the event of an escape."

He knows that some people will be inclined to question him on this, but he isn't going to keep it a secret, either.

"A place to store--?" Ryunosuke starts to repeat, then breaks off abruptly.

Ahah.

"...You're looking to construct a prison, in other words." He says it more quietly, his face taking on a troubled expression. A sense of unease starts to creep over him, casting the edges of its shadow over his heart.

"Aye," he says, and there is no shame or trepidation in him admitting as much. Rephasing the intent does little to shake his determination in this regard. It's nothing he hasn't already considered.

"Unless you would prefer they simply be killed?" The harshness there is intentional, and perhaps not surprising. He has long since felt that the Pleroma need to start making hard decisions rather than simply hoping they won't be necessary, and this is among the first coming to his mind - what should they do with defeated enemies?

Ryunosuke jolts in surprise, both at his tone and the suggested alternative.

"Huh!? N-n-no, of course not!" he replies, scrambling very quickly to shut down that idea. "No, I--"

He takes a deep breath in and out, trying to gather himself before continuing in a more level-headed manner.

"I agree with you, that it may be a necessity for us to have... It just... Fills me with a rather grim feeling to contemplate it." While he's talking, he moves to try and nervously push a hand back through his short black hair, but the familiar motion doesn't work so well now that he has little baby horns growing in at the edge of his hairline. He grimaces, shaking his jammed fingers out while he continues without acknowledging the blunder: "Then again I suppose there's no due process to consider really, when it comes to running a war prison..."

Even as he says those words aloud he can feel himself disagreeing with the notion. Shouldn’t there be? COULD there be?

Edited 2022-06-16 18:20 (UTC)

"Due process," Estinien scoffs. Is due process really a concern when the issue is them either being mind-controlled or signing on to serve a dictator bent on destroying all reality? "Tell me... in your homeland, what is the punishment for killing a man in cold blood?"

He's not angry, saying that, but it is definitely a bit pointed. How does one enact due process without naming themself the authority of what is just to begin with? If they do, would the answer be any different, for all the time spent deliberating?

He winces internally at Estinien's scoff. Due process is something that he takes pretty seriously, not just as a lawyer but as a man who has been wrongly accused of murder twice to date. He'd have been doomed without it.

"It... Depends," Ryunosuke says slowly, with the tinge of an uncomfortable groan. "On the circumstances of the crime, what the motivation was... Different countries all have their own ways of dealing with such things, of course. But. In my home country... The most common punishment is death. Typically by hanging, or..." He pauses to grimace, fidgeting at the collar of his shirt uncomfortably. "...Beheading."

That's one that had really kept him up during the nights he'd spent in jail, in the days leading up to his trial.

Estinien has little faith in the legal process, and even were 'due process' available to them, he most likely wouldn't be able to stomach relying on it. That's what happens when 'trial by ordeal' is considered valid in your homeland.

Even beyond that, though...

"And yet... I assume in the aftermath of a war, not every soldier is hauled to court to have their deeds judged, are they? A few, mayhap. Those with names that have meaning to the people. For the rest... they kill and die on the field. Justice is irrelevant."

His expression is somber as he says it. This isn't him taking war lightly. It's quite the opposite.

"For those that would fight - for ideals, for soil, for freedom - there is an understanding in that. It may sound cruel, but were every life to be weighed and due punishment applied... the cycle of loss would never end."

Edited 2022-06-20 02:30 (UTC)

For what it's worth, Ryunosuke is listening to his points very, very carefully, though his brow remains furrowed throughout. When Estinien is finished, he sighs; not in disappointment, but rather with the air of someone who's about to put words to something that they are fully expecting to be mocked for. That's how every Kenoma he'd spoken to in Venera had reacted, after all.

"...I suppose that's the sticking point, isn't it? It's difficult for me to truly take it to heart... The idea that this situation we've found ourselves in is indeed war. I've never been involved in one myself, not even indirectly."

He shakes his head, glancing out towards the trees, hands clasped loosely behind his back. "As I said, I don't doubt the necessity of your plans... I just... When it comes time to make use of such a facility, I hope you'll ensure that those we capture are treated with a degree of respect above what I've come to expect from the gaolers in my own world."

For a moment, Estinien feels something ugly and reflexive in his gut. Truly, the only one hemming and hawing over the definition of war would be someone who had never had to experience it for themself, he thinks. Thankfully, his momentary disgust doesn't show on his face, his expression stoic as ever.

He's been trying to be more understanding about this sort of thing, but the difference in experience sometimes feels like an uncrossable gap between him and others here. How could Ryunosuke possibly know anything without having experienced what Estinien has been born into?

He has to take a moment to steady himself. When he speaks, it's in a level tone, despite the innate harshness of his words.

"If I wanted to torture them I'd just tear out their shards and leave them to suffer in helplessness as I did," he says. Despite everything, he really had been trying to think of a more humane way to go about things, if only for the members of the Kenoma he believed had been manipulated or broken. "Every ounce of complication in this project is a result of my attempt to find a 'better way'."

Being cruel is much easier than being kind, as it turns out.

At the pause, Ryunosuke glances at him, wondering if the hesitation means he'd said something wrong just now. He can't imagine what, though... Because it hadn't really been his intention to question the reality of this being war. Rather, he'd been trying to cop to the very ignorance that Estinien has rightly identified in him. The harshness of his words then make it abundantly clear that he has indeed caused some kind of offense.

"Ah," he nearly squeaks, shivering at the description. Ripping someone's shard out sounds horrid? Please, let's not do that. He shakes his head lightly though, collecting himself to address Estinien with some genuine contrition: "Um, my apologies... I didn't mean to imply that you hadn't given the matter any thought at all." He rubs his forehead wearily before continuing. "It's as I said... My experience with these matters is minimal. I hear 'prison', and I think first of the sort I'm most familiar with back home: dismal places where those who have yet to face trial are left to stew in their fear and loneliness, at the mercy of guards who are already convinced of their guilt."

"...Then our worlds were much the same."

He need only consider the Inquisition and its constant search for heretics, many of which were subjected to unjust fates like trial by ordeal.

"Thankfully, our situation provides us with a certain lack of ambiguity in that regard. Those taken by the Kenoma must needs be cleansed of it... or kept in such a matter that they can cause no further harm. Would that we could find a way to more reliably do the former."

It's a relief, to have found some common ground here, and Ryunosuke nods understandingly at that. The idea of a prison will never sit well with him, but he can acknowledge the necessity for one. He might even help manage it, if permitted. Negotiating with and advocating for the incarcerated is something familiar to him, at least.

"Hmm..."

Ryunosuke's gaze grows distant again, his hand resting thoughtfully at his chin.

"...Didn't you once tell me that it took a certain strength of will to resist the Kenoma? You said the Regent's forces tortured you all... Did their utmost to break your spirits. If the Kenoma and Pleroma truly exist opposite to one another... Well, to me, it would make the most sense that some manner of opposite treatment might be the key to releasing them from its hold."

He sighs, letting his hand drop. "Of course, lifting a man from despair requires far more effort than letting him drop into it. And some may be, as you suggest, beyond reasoning with."

"It has always been easier to destroy than to heal."

That much he knows very well. The destruction of a person can happen in an instant, while recovery may take the rest of their life, if it happens at all. This he knows to be true. After all, he was one of the lucky ones. He lived long enough to find a semblance of peace.

"I know not what particular qualities spared our souls over the others. Sheer bull-headedness, mayhap. But in the end... we were not alone. There was... a presence within us, that expelled the Kenoma's poison and empowered us to claim our freedom. The Pleroma, I believe."

Their deaths had been all but certain. That they were saved by the Pleroma is something he will never forget, no matter where this path leads.

"Perhaps our will to persevere earned its attention. Regardless, if there is any cure for the Kenoma's affliction, I believe that is where it lies."

Ryunosuke cocks his head thoughtfully.

"You make it sound almost as if it has a will of its own... A consciousness, even."

Maybe they're teetering on the edge of taking this discussion way too deep into the realm of religious speculation and philosophy, but he's curious if Estinien has anything further to say about that.

"Do you think it actively chooses those who it deems worthy of its influence?"

Estinien falls quiet, clearly unsure about how to phrase whatever he's thinking. He lets himself muse over it for several seconds before answering.

"Nay... I believe that certain actions, certain choices, may welcome its presence."

He doesn't necessarily think that the Pleroma is a person that analyzes them to consciously make a decision about who passes and who doesn't. Just that it knows where it's wanted, more or less.

"I believe that perseverance makes one's soul fertile ground for the spirit of life."

Ryunosuke thinks about that a moment, then nods, smiling slightly.

"I think I would agree with that. Though it does make one wonder..."

He's lost in thought again, for a moment. Trying to put words to this questioning feeling he has.

"I do wonder if the Kenoma... Not the power itself, but the Aions who align with it... Do you think they could exist, just... As they are? Without the Regent to lead them?"

That question probably doesn't make any sense but he's trying here, ok,

"A fair question," Estinien murmurs. He's wondered the same himself. Is an Aion attuning to the Kenoma natural, or an aberration caused by the Regent. "From my experience... all that is Kenoma is rooted in the Regent and their schemes. That poison of theirs... 'twas nothing natural."

He leans back, finding a tiny bit of solace in the thought. That this illness might be excised with the elimination of an individual.

"If they were destroyed... who knows what ails we might cure."

[Closed] June Catch-All

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